Curse

Yignyar Cthulius · Sep 04, 2011, 01:00 AM // 01:00

For FoWsc, the most commonly desired MoP builds are N/P and N/A. N/P has the option for speed boosts, resurrection, and faster blind removal. If you bring air of superiority it helps with a chance for recharge. N/A however, uses Assassin's promise to recharge MoP for the forge. The N/E build is more neologistic in the fact that I have done over 40 successful runs with it and only encountered two players that have seen it before. The purpose of N/E is the same of N/A except it has some pros over it.

The N/E build:
Mark of Pain
Barbs
Defile Defenses
You move like a dwarf
Finish him
Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
Glyph of Renewal
Foul Feast

N/A requires the death of an enemy to recharge MoP and other skills, oftentimes with a good Main Team the spike will be over just after MoP is cast, making the Necro have to hurry and cast AP on the target before it dies or cast before mopping which may delay the spike. GoR is still cast before the spike but you do not have to be in aggro range of the enemy. In fact, GoR gives you a good 15 seconds to cast before it runs out. So you can use GoR when the MT is almost done balling then cast MoP.

Now GoR has a 10 second recharge (8 with cons), meaning if you cast GoR early enough it will already be recharged when you use a spell. With this you can send 3 EVAS (Gor--->7 seconds--->EVAS-->GoR-->EVAS--->EVAS) to spike a target such as a shard wolf or infernal wurm (If main team is helping to cover ToS) or simply with recovering from an accident such as an mt dying.

So overall this build is similar to N/A with different pros and cons.

Pros:
1. Any skill on your bar can be double or triple casted.
2. Does not require an enemy to die to recharge skills, only requires 8 seconds to use GoR again.
3. GoR does not require attribute points allowing more to be put into soul reaping increasing health and energy gain from FF and energy from spikes.
4. Only requires prophecies and EOTN, making it an effective N/A alternative to those that do not possess factions.
5. Makes it possible if not less effective with FF and damage for Elementalists to participate with the same or similar build.
Cons:
1. GoR does not give an energy boost when a target falls.
2. GoR only recharges one skill at a time.

It also has similar pros and cons to the N/P build:

Pros:
1. Any skill on your bar can be double or triple casted.
2. N/P cannot spam EVAS unless lucky with Air of superiority (if brought).
3. Faster forge than N/P with recharge and more reliable than Air of superiority on an N/P bar.
4. Only requires prophecies and EOTN, allowing a still effective MoP build if Nightfall is not owned.
Cons:
1.N/E cannot resurrect without scrolls or a rez signet(which is not recommended for your skill bar)
2. N/P has faster condition removal that cannot be interrupted by choking gas.
3. N/P has the option to provide speed boosts to the main team.

Overall with MoP being an easy job the pros and cons don't make too much of a difference in success rate. Experience with the build does obviously, but the purpose of this is release another effective MoP build for use.

The Superb Killer · Sep 04, 2011, 03:19 AM // 03:19

I've seen this once before; may have been you running it.

During that one particular run, the N/E didn't seem to perform too different from any MoPs using the N/A bar. Tbh, running this bar won't make much of a difference than running the N/A skills; it's all more so whichever somebody is most comfortable with. For the sake of being different, though, I would like to see more N/E. Same with N/Mo.....

Yignyar Cthulius · Sep 04, 2011, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Very true, the main ideas to N/A and N/E are almost the same, and MoP being an easy task it's really down to what you're better at. The utility is different though and I feel N/E is actually easier to manage making it steadier. I've also tried running Great Dwarf Weapon with it in place of You Move Like a Dwarf but seeing as YMLD is effective anywhere and GDW is only useful when the EoE isn't splintering I dropped it.

Life Bringing · Sep 04, 2011, 03:46 AM // 03:46

N/A is still superior on single targets because of the evas-->fh combo. N/A is superior in terms of time taken because you can cast ap after initiating the spike, rather than having to stop for 1.75 seconds while running to the next mob. The reason that theres not much of a difference when running the variety of MoP options is because the MoP role isnt actually necessary for a fast, successful FoWSC, even moreso now that there is VoS

Yignyar Cthulius · Sep 04, 2011, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

N/A is still superior on single targets because of the evas-->fh combo. N/A is superior in terms of time taken because you can cast ap after initiating the spike, rather than having to stop for 1.75 seconds while running to the next mob.

The EVAS-->FH combo does not make N/A superior because it can be executed by both N/E and N/P as well. Moreover, N/E can send multiple EVAS if necessary. On anothernote, that stop is generally taken ahead of the spikers the you ping MoP after or even while casting. For N/A you still have that pause to cast AP assuming your spikers didn't finish them (Which in forge they probably haven't) so N/A and N/E don't have much of a difference in time between spikes.

AndrewSX · Sep 04, 2011, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Nice to see some inventive in builds but honestly...as said in other threads, the mop bar can be reduced to a single skill: Mark of Pain. All other 7 slots are filled with support for it and party, that's all.

[Nika] · Sep 05, 2011, 01:21 PM // 13:21

The N/E build is sooo old, it was the op build for eles a year ago (E/N).

Windbow · Sep 05, 2011, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yignyar Cthulius

The EVAS-->FH combo does not make N/A superior because it can be executed by both N/E and N/P as well.

AP makes it possible to then press tab and do it again. That's what life meant.

Yignyar Cthulius · Sep 05, 2011, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windbow

AP makes it possible to then press tab and do it again. That's what life meant.

N/E using GoR also makes this possible. This is not a debate on which build is better. If that were the case I'd assume a lot of votes on N/P. Also, as Andrew stated the only really required skill is MoP as the others are support. The 7 support skills you use provide different pros and cons. N/A and N/E have one very similar pro to N/P; that is recharge. In recharge versus recharge with AP your skills are recharged as soon as the combo is over and you can tab and do it again, however if the combo doesn't kill your enemy you have to rely on your teammates to kill to get rid of the 24 second EVAS recharge. With GoR you can send an EVAS every ~10 (Including casting times) and the only real recharge problem is the ~13 second recharge for FH and when you tab you have to cast GoR again, but if your enemy doesn't die the first time it's a simple matter to send another EVAS or doublecast it. So both recharge builds have their advantages against each other. It depends on what you're more comfortable with much like Killer said.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by [Nika]

The N/E build is sooo old, it was the op build for eles a year ago (E/N).

Then it has already been proven useful along with the Me/N, A/N, N/A, and N/P variants. If it was what E/N used to utilize then I imagine the E/N build will still work despite a max of 12 in curses, therefore allowing Elementalists to continue to participate in FoWsc.

[Nika] · Sep 07, 2011, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Ofc you can use all of these builds, even as ele, meser and so on.
But the Ele had 15 curses: 1+ cons +2 awake the blood (idk right skill name atm).

Life Bringing · Sep 07, 2011, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yignyar Cthulius

I have bad teams and need 13 seconds to kill a single target

Thats what i got out of that

Manic Star · Sep 08, 2011, 12:07 AM // 00:07

The most effective Elite skill on a Mark of Pain Necromancer on a Manly Spike Fow run is still Assassins Promise.

The Elite skill doesn't require activation on your basic spikes as the base recharge of the skill is a mere 20 seconds.

The benefit of Assassins Promise is in its ability to clean up multiple solo targets with skills such as "Finish Him!" and "You Move Like a Dwarf!" and Rigor Mortis.

Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support should be removed from any Mop bar in Fissures of Woe as it will either...

1. Trigger Mark of Pain before your Spikers arrive and thus cause your targets to scatter and create a nasty mess.
2. The target your Assassin was attacking is killed and it patrols itself into agro and onto the team.

If you really wish to take an Elementalist into the Fissures of Woe simply organise a Savannah Heat/Searing Flames spike team. (Spellcaster spikes require minimal healing as Mesmer Spike and Old School Ray of Judgement spike proved meaning you could take 5 Elementalist Spikers)

A N/E or E/N Mop was only beneficial when "By Ural's Hammer!" and Intensity used to provide +% damage and only then used for Barbs against Boss targets such as Urgoz and Ilsundur.

N/P Is a jack of all trades bar that isn't effective at anything...

If you want condition removal place in on the Monk in the form of "Can't Touch This!" or Spotless Soul.

If you want Speed take a Porogon with you in replacement of a spiker as a single Vow of Strength Dervish can comfortably spike alone in quick succession.

Zozio · Sep 08, 2011, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Whatever, any Necro with a 40/40 set is just fine, but gotta admit it, 90% of pve's pugging fow still don't undestand it..

SmokingHotImolation · Sep 08, 2011, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yignyar Cthulius

N/E using GoR also makes this possible.

No. GoR does this to one skill whereas AP does it to the whole bar.

paranon · Sep 08, 2011, 03:37 PM // 15:37

It has already been established in other threads that as a mop you can bring pretty much whatever you want as long as you have mop and barbs. However N/A is still the best option because (as piercing said), the AP->EVAS->FH->repeat combo is so strong, and AP gives you the energy and the recharges to spam these skills every 5s, meaning that cleanup is very easy. The reason there are now so many different mop bars is because people do not run the bar this way and therefore think that n/a is inferior. The n/a mop bar is basically the same as the discord caller bar, and should be used in the same way for cleanup, GoR cannot come close to this level of efficiency.

InStars · Sep 09, 2011, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Nika]

The N/E build is sooo old, it was the op build for eles a year ago (E/N).

My guildie used E/N as MoP, since Ele was his only char.
And we did fine, the damage from 13 curses was enough for the spike

BTW, ele gets more energy ^^

Zhen · Sep 09, 2011, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by InStars

BTW, ele gets more energy ^^

Energy is never a problem for a Necro due to Soul Reaping, lol.

Yignyar Cthulius · Sep 13, 2011, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Thats what i got out of that

There is not a logical argument in rewording my post unless properly paraphrasing it.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokingHotImolation

No. GoR does this to one skill whereas AP does it to the whole bar.

Well N/A does have that advantage. The entire bar may not be fully necessary but does provide speed and convenience. However GoR has it's own conveniences as well. It's these pros and cons that give everyone their personal preference. Mine is N/E and N/P is good if I think I will need a resurrection skill. Other than that the difference isn't too great from N/A and N/E as far as effective utility is concerned.

loshon · Sep 13, 2011, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Well, mathematically speaking N/A is 80% more effective as far as utility is concerned due to N/E recharging 20% of the skills that N/A does, as well as the other points that were mentioned, which I won't repeat.